[Suggestion] Real-life piracy

[Gorlom]

I am not allowed to steal a car and try it for a few days before I buy it, so why should anyone be allowed to steal FTL or any other game?

That argument is a fallacy. When stealing through copying digital information you are not denying anyone access to the original. When stealing a car you deny the owner of that car access to it.

The Swedish "antipiratbyrån" used to run an ad-campaign (perhaps still does) that said just that and people thought it was ridiculous to the extent that people that did not pirate or agree with pirating started saying they would steal cars if it would make antipiratbyrån shut up. I don't think they really would, but I think they all considered there to be a significant difference between stealing a car and stealing information. They consider both to be morally wrong but seeing them be said to be the same thing probably annoyed people so that the ad-campaign had an adverse effect.

[CaptainQuirk]

I am not allowed to steal a car and try it for a few days before I buy it, so why should anyone be allowed to steal FTL or any other game?

That argument is a fallacy. When stealing through copying digital information you are not denying anyone access to the original. When stealing a car you deny the owner of that car access to it.

Stealing the blue-prints for a car. Stealing a car directly off the factory line. Whatever, it doesn't matter, the equivalency is there.

theft/THeft/
Noun:
The action or crime of stealing: "he was convicted of theft"; "the latest theft happened at a garage".

There's no distinction in the definition between theft of physical property or intellectual property and I don't see why there should be. 'Depriving the owner of access' is irrelevant when talking about whether the act of theft is morally correct.

In the case of try before you buy it's entitlement which makes people believe that they should be allowed to test something before parting with their hard earned $$$. Fair enough, I'd like to test everything before I buy it too but unfortunately that's not the way the world works. Companies have a right to sell the products for a profit and to protect their products from theft, including their digital products.

[Gorlom]

Both are acts of theft, but in one case what is stolen is not missing.
There is a difference.
The difference is not moral in nature.
Both cases are still wrong.
The argument does not work as intended.

There's no distinction in the definition between theft of physical property or intellectual property and I don't see why there should be.

There shouldn't, but there is. Perhaps not in the dictionary but in the minds of people. Some rationalize that "if nothing is missing then nothing is stolen".

I'm not trying to defend or promote piracy, I'm trying to make you better at making arguments against it.

[CaptainQuirk]

Both are acts of theft, but in one case what is stolen is not missing.
There is a difference.
The difference is not moral in nature.
Both cases are still wrong.
The argument does not work as intended.

There's no distinction in the definition between theft of physical property or intellectual property and I don't see why there should be.

There shouldn't, but there is. Perhaps not in the dictionary but in the minds of people. Some rationalize that "if nothing is missing then nothing is stolen".

I'm not trying to defend or promote piracy, I'm trying to make you better at making arguments against it.

lol, nice. I am glad to see that you're invested in the validity of my arguments.

However, from my point of view the only argument that is needed is, "Theft is theft." people can rationalize all they want about abstract vs physical but it changes no attributes of the crime. If you steal something, it's theft. There's no equivocating on that point. Rationalization is just a security blankie to promote feeling better about being a thief.

If someone wants to, instead, argue that piracy is not, in fact, theft/crime well that's a different matter and a line I think they'd have a hard time pushing but I personally would be open to discussion.

[ThePsuedoMonkey]

Way to stereotype basically all of thinking humanity. Sure I have a view, but it doesn't mean that I won't be swayed by a logically sound, well-reasoned argument.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but I didn't come to that conclusion by myself. As this paper (full text) and another one point out, group discussions tend to fall prey to confirmation bias and attitude polarization; and those were of people meeting in person.

To be fair, the argument here seems to have climaxed (giggity), but I doubt anyone here planned on pirating FTL.

[Gorlom]

To be fair, the argument here seems to have climaxed (giggity), but I doubt anyone here planned on pirating FTL.

I am!... But only because Justin hinted that anyone pirating the game would get a cool unique pirate skin for their ships.

I have already paid for the the game and beta access so I think (hope) I'm allowed to?

[Justin]

I am!... But only because Justin hinted that anyone pirating the game would get a cool unique pirate skin

As a formal statement, pirates will NOT receive a special pirate skin, lol. I just thought it would be funny. Yarrrrrrr.

[Galevav]

Hey, replies to my topi--

*backs away slowly*

Anyway, alternate skins would be pretty neat. Any chance for mod support?

[Gorlom]

I am!... But only because Justin hinted that anyone pirating the game would get a cool unique pirate skin

As a formal statement, pirates will NOT receive a special pirate skin, lol. I just thought it would be funny. Yarrrrrrr.

Awww... can I at least get a pirate hat for the human members of the Kestrel?


BTW: Yaaarrrrr!

[Maze1125]

Way to stereotype basically all of thinking humanity. Sure I have a view, but it doesn't mean that I won't be swayed by a logically sound, well-reasoned argument.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but I didn't come to that conclusion by myself. As this paper (full text) and another one point out, group discussions tend to fall prey to confirmation bias and attitude polarization; and those were of people meeting in person.

To be fair, the argument here seems to have climaxed (giggity), but I doubt anyone here planned on pirating FTL.

That's still stereotyping.
All those papers prove is that most people completely fail to argue rationally, which is true, but that doesn't mean there can't be one person who's capable of debating a subject and considering both sides fairly and on their own merits.

Further, the value of internet debates is rarely in convincing the person you're directly responding to, but in convincing third parties who are reading the debate. Those people often haven't formed a significant opinion on the subject yet and so are far more willing to consider both sides fairly as they don't have an entrenched position.